Following a 15-year tenure as executive director of Canadian Sesame Street and seven more years, from 1990 to 1996, as head of youth and children’s programming at Radio-Canada, Michel Lavoie is retiring as of March 31.

In an interview with Lavoie and Stephane Turcotte, Lavoie’s longtime colleague in children’s programming and r-c’s new director, children’s, youth and family programs, the broadcasters talked about the heritage of Canadian Sesame Street, the ideals of public television and the wave of commercialism bombarding children’s entertainment.

A thoroughly bicultural Canadian with an international perspective, Lavoie’s colleagues describe him as a bright and caring individual, an especially creative program administrator who’s worked as a director and writer, all sustained by a playful and indeed mischievous sense of humor (see story, p. 23).

Commenting on the state of children’s programming at r-c, Lavoie says the biggest evolution has been the ongoing downsizing.

‘Radio-Canada has always been a major in-house producer of (children’s) programs, there’s a long tradition of this. But with the (funding) pressures – and this is about public (political) will – what has been wanted is the downsizing of in-house production and to give it to industry. Like it or not, that’s where we’re going,’ he says.

The money is in the private sector, ‘that’s where the future is,’ says Lavoie, adding the pendulum must return because shutting down the network’s in-house children’s operation would be a monumental mistake.

‘There have to be places in our society, and I think public television is the right place, for permanent reflection on issues related to children. I don’t think that’s going to happen in the private production houses. Those people are profit-motivated, and that’s their job.’

Committed to kids

Lavoie holds management at r-c is genuinely committed to its children’s and youth programs.

‘Honestly, we went through hell and high water but in general our (haute direction) have always supported children’s and a lot of them even believe in it. Even with adolescents, we’re doing a good job; at any rate, we’re trying with very limited funds. Don’t forget, we’re five million people here.’

Lavoie seems less sure cbc is showing the same kind of concern

‘In preschool, yes, they invest a lot. After that when a kid’s six years old they just say, ‘Good luckŠsee you in American televisionŠno more Canadian television.’ It’s not because kids are small that (their programs) have to have small budgets.’

Turcotte asks, ‘Is there really a will to safeguard children’s programming across the country seeing that it’s not something that brings in (financial) returns?’

She says budget cutbacks and the heightened rush for ratings, competition from specialty channels and a cbc and Quebec ban on tv advertising to children 13 and younger have meant children’s programming is often the first to suffer.

r-c’s youth and children’s program department broadcasts 20 hours of programs weekly, with a total annual budget of under $15 million.

‘There’s less and less internal (in-house) production because of the cost. So there’s more and more external production for youth, and coproductions,’ says Turcotte.

Although Lavoie believes deeply in the ideals of public television, he says structures must change. He says compact creative groups are the way of the future. ‘That’s not bad. There’s a lot of energy in those companies, too.’

Higher ACT profile

Lavoie is an active member of the Alliance for Children and Television and has sat on its board since 1990. He’s currently completing a term as treasurer.

‘The Alliance is a group of people who care about good children’s programming. It has become more business-oriented and, I think, more interesting.’

Lavoie says act’s role as a national advocacy group will be heightened in the months ahead as it intends to push harder with both the crtc and Heritage Minister Sheila Copps for more funding for quality Canadian children’s programming.

‘Television for children is a social enterprise and should be considered a part of the country’s heritage,’ says Lavoie. ‘It can’t just be commercially driven.

‘We have had a lot of debates about commercialism here,’ he says. ‘I think we’re going overboard in the sense that all our energy has been put into discussing violence in kids’ tv. We are all against violence. At the same time there’s a debate we’re not talking about, perhaps it’s more prevalent in English Canada than Quebec because of our laws, but it’s this whole thing of commercialism.

‘Our children’s outlets are becoming so commercial, and I’m not going to name them. Watch some of the specialty channels in English Canada and you’ll get the impression you’re watching abc or cbs or the worst of the Americans, at least in terms of ads. Our kids are being bombarded. They are not consumers, they’re kids! It’s pernicious and the Alliance is going to address this.

‘It’s not a question of being ‘the purest of the pure.’ This is a motherhood statement, and I believe it.’

On the other hand, the strict ban against advertising in Quebec, especially to young teens, seems counterproductive to both Turcotte and Lavoie. ‘I think we’re a little too Catholic,’ he says.

Breakthrough programming

Lavoie returned to r-c from cbc in 1989 and was named director, children’s, youth and family programming in 1990, a post he held until last year. The department’s ‘expanded’ mandate includes socio-cultural and religious programs.

As head of youth programming, Lavoie’s duties included the creative direction, development and broadcasting of over 1,400 hours of programs annually, supervising a staff of 65, including 20 producers, and managing a budget of $15 million

His accomplishments as department head are many.

He takes competitive pride in the fact audience share at the French-language public network has increased during his watch, especially among tweens and teens and in weekend programming slots where r-c dominates.

Over the years he’s worked closely as a broadcaster and creative consultant on many groundbreaking, Montreal-produced children’s series, programming that’s exported throughout the world.

Among the top independent series licensed by Lavoie are Pacha et les chats/Kitty Cats, produced by Prisma Productions; Productions Desclez’s Iris, le gentil professeur/Iris the Happy Professor and La Petite Etoile/The Little Star; and La Maison de Ouimsie/Wimzie’s House, produced by Cinar Films.

He licensed the Gemeaux Award-winning teen soap opera Watatatow, produced by Productions jbm (a joint venture between Pixcom and writer/producer Jean-Pierre Morin), and has helped develop a new teen series, Le Grand Ecart.

As head of the service, Lavoie programmed, originated and revamped a slew of popular magazine shows including sda’s Les Debrouillards and Sur la piste, Genies en Herbes, a school-age quiz program, Pixcom’s annual teen specials Ici Ados Canada and the highly innovative international competitive doc series La Course Destination Monde.

As exec producer, Lavoie created two very successful in-house weekend series, Vazimolo (1991), directed by Turcotte, and Bouledogue Bazar (1994), both of which earned audience shares of 65 and over.

In ’95, r-c became the first French-language network to create an original children’s Web site (www.radio-canada.com/jeunesse), an award-winning site piloted by Lavoie.

‘What I like about it is the convergence and interactivityŠwhatever that means,’ says Lavoie. ‘The kids are going to be there. And it’s close to good educational television, which is where my heart is. Television is the classroom of the world. Remember when we used to say that? Well, it’s truer than ever.’

Canadian Sesame Street

Lavoie’s duties as exec producer on Canadian Sesame Street (1975 to 1990) included the development of the show’s scripting and educational concepts, and the administration and management of personnel at 10 production centers across the country. During his 15-year tenure, thousands of hours of film, video and animation programs were produced in both languages.

His duties also included liaising with the Children’s Television Workshop, the show’s creators, and over the course of the mandate, Lavoie wrote and directed some 500 episodes.

In 1985, he was asked – in association with Jim Henson Associates – to launch the show’s Canadian Muppets contingent: Dodi, the bilingual Louis, Basil the Bear, et al. The first tv special, Basil Hears a Noise, took home a prestigious Cableace Award in 1990.

The show has been an unparalleled hit with small fry and their parents. By the mid-’80s it was being broadcast six times a week, reaching more than 75% of kiddies aged two to six. Indeed, for more than 10 years during Lavoie’s tenure, Canadian Sesame Street was the most watched preschool program in the country. And the Canadian version was the only version exported to the u.s.

‘At one point we (the show’s producers) were in 10 centers right across the country. It was really the way the network was supposed to be in those days,’ he says. (Today, Sesame Park is a half-hour largely Canadian-content show.)

Lavoie says one of the great things about Sesame Street was its introduction of high-quality production values and breakthrough declaration of ‘Kids deserve the best!’

‘The other thing was the research. I think there was a breakthrough there, too, because for the first time we started using research data in television, and it made for better television in a way. I think maybe now we’ve gone too far the other way and there’s too much research. We can’t use it as a crutch.’

Lavoie says today’s elite band of Canadian puppeteers were trained on shows like Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street, Romper Room, etc.). ‘The Big Comfy Couch, (that is) a Sesame Street graduate, Rob Mills. That’s what is so interesting about that whole network. Wimzie is going on pbs in June. That’s not bad. It is made in Montreal, right across the street from here.’

Canada’s success in exporting preschool programs is exceptional because each country has specific expectations and needs for its children. ‘We want our little kids to have the right language skills and all sorts of things like that. They’re very fussy.’

First female director

Turcotte is the first woman to head the department.

‘This used to be a guy thing,’ muses Lavoie. Turcotte, who spent the better part of the interview genuinely amused by her longtime colleague adds, ‘When times get tough they put a woman in charge.’

This season’s children’s hits at Radio-Canada are La Maison de Ouimzie, ‘our first sitcom,’ and Bouledogue Bazar, an in-house production for the six-to-12 set. Bete pas bete is another critically acclaimed r-c kids’ magazine, with awards from the Alliance for Children and Television and Prix Gemeaux. In game shows, Turcotte says kids are fascinated by Les Mondes de Sismi, a new superbly designed program from Prisma Productions.

La Bande a Frankie (Frankie’s Gang) is a new jbm sketch and touring show hosted by Frankie and a bunch a ghouls who live in a cemetery.

Outside the children’s sector, Lavoie has directed and produced a variety of tv programs over the years.

Lavoie serves and has served as a consultant and board member at many public advocacy, broadcasting and government agencies including Heritage Canada, the European Broadcasting Union, the CRB Foundation, c.i.f. e.j., the international children’s and youth programming organization, and Prix Jeunesse International.

He has published extensive research on television formats, design and children’s preferences.

A very young looking retiree, Lavoie says he intends to teach and consult as well as take on new projects, perhaps ones with an international dimension. He hopes to continue to work with children.

Under Turcotte’s amused gaze, he concludes, ‘If you offer me an interesting project I could probably produce it for you. . . for a small fee.’